Thursday, September 4, 2008


I have debated until I was blue in the face with family, friends, and church leaders regarding the upcoming Proposition 8 initiative that will be on the November ballot. I pondered introspectively on the prospect of blogging in open opposition to the public policy advice from the Prophet of the true and living Church and decided that I didn't need any unwanted religious aggravation just in case some trigger-happy, up-and-comer stake high council member somehow stumbles upon my blog and tries to make an example out of the heathen wolf in sheep's clothing while making his case to be the new councilor in the Stake Presidency. I do still have my family to think I will NOT be giving an entire blog in which I would state my case so eloquently that even Barack Obama would stand and clap.

After all my reasoning, debating, and flat-out arguing, I have come to the conclusion that either you get it or you don't. And I am not saying that either side is completely right or wrong. This is just to formally announce that I give up trying on this subject matter. I don't want to argue any longer. Every time someone tries to address the issue with me on a logical basis it always ends up that I am the recipient of someone's testimony of the Prophet of God. Thank you, I know who Thomas Monson is.

I am also convinced that if I attempt to share an opposing view it may force people to think...and I understand that not everyone wants to do that for themselves. Many individuals are simply content in allowing other people to make decisions for them. The global economy and every religion alive requires the need for vast amounts of these types of people. They are a terrestrial necessity. Frankly, I am surprised at how many there are...And this by no means is an attack on those who actually have used logic, reasoning, and yes faith if you must, to reach a view in opposition of mine. It was simply a jab at the mindless sheep who wouldn't realize the insult anyway. However, faith without an logical comprehension of your position throws one back into the herd. Nevertheless...


I get the point. We have had it beaten through our skulls every Sunday for the last 6 to 7 straight weeks with no end in sight. If I just convert and join the in-crowd and give my vote to strip Constitutional rights from our citizens (Bush has taken away so many anyway...why not add a few more), if I do this...Can we PLEASE go back to learning about Christ-like love for our fellow brothers and sisters and less about the societal and scientific absolutes learned through prayer? Can we just go back to studying the gospel and learning things that will help me return exalted in the Celestial Kingdom where marriage is how it is supposed to be? You know...between a man and a woman...and one more woman...and maybe one more woman...

I know, I know. Shrug it off with the obligatory Mormon cop-out, "He must be hiding some deep dark sins. He's doing something evil in his life. There's no other explanation for it." So go ahead and convince yourselves of that and dig around in my garbage cans looking for evidence if need be. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Why else could someone go against the flowing current of propaganda? I must be a sinner...


As my farewell to the topic, I give the words oft attributed to Reverend Martin Niemoller circa 1945 as a reflection of the Nazi rise to power:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.


Christopher Maloy said...

Love it!!! Great blog, great post.

Anonymous said...

The church is a non-profit organization and therefore is not allowed by law to express any political beliefs on its followers. Maybe someone should remind the hierchy of this...because they could potentially lose their non-profit status and we all know what happens then : Higher Tithing!!!

Anonymous said...

We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.” (D+C 134:9).

Jodi Jean said...

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i would never label you as a "sinner" because of your opinion.

one concern for me about prop 8 is regarding our children. in first grade children are taught in public school about marriage. currently they are taught about men and women ... were this to pass that would change. i don't know how i feel about anything different than that being TAUGHT to my children. robby and i have even discussed private school (he went to one as a child). who knows ... but for me that is a BIG issue.

oh ... and mr. 1 woman + 1 woman + 1 woman ... if they change the definition of marriage, who is to say that polygamy is bad? changing the definition would apply to that as well ...

ok ... and 1 last concern for me (although robby insists that this wouldn't be a problem) ... that our church would have to perform gay marriages ... i don't know. robby insists that we have the right to not marry people now (he even brought up our own interview before we were married for time ... we even had to have permission from the 1st presidency) ... so i suppose they could say they have been turning people away before and what's to change ... who knows.

T.J. Shelby said...

Jodi, I will try to be brief in response only because I said I wasn't going to present the entire issue in essay/blog form. But in fairness, you haven't heard me rant endlessly on the issue so you don't know where I stand.

Regarding "the children"...first off, I don't know the specifics of the 1st grade class and which school/district is beginning sex education at age 5, 6, and 7 but for most of the other public schools that begin in 5th or 6th grade the sexual education portion is taught by a guest specialist and requires signed parental permission slips. Parents are welcome to review course material and make their decisions in an informed manner.

I'm also going to agree with Robby on the ability of the church to not marry whom they will. My entire position, in a nutshell, is that the government should have NOTHING to do with legal definitions of marriage. If marriage was instituted and ordained of God, then let the government provide equal civil unions for willing, consenting adults and those who wish to be have a religious marriage ceremony should go to the churches.

Jodi Jean said...

i'm gonna go read that email you sent me ... and i agree with robby as well .. the more i think about it i think everyone is just starting to freak out a little. i think preserving marriage is important, but i don't think the world is going to end if the prop passes.

and i'm not talking about sex education ... they teach about marriage in 1st grade apparently (and hannah just started 1st grade ... maybe ask her teacher?) i'm just telling you what i heard ... i don't know anything definitive about it

Jodi Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Empress of Venus said...

Wow T. If it helps, there's many more people on your side than you think. For myself, the only difference is how dispassionately I feel about the whole thing. I'm afraid I've gotten to the point of cynicism where I think it doesn't matter what I vote for anyone, the lawmakers keep overthrowing Democracy as a whole and doing whatever they want.

I agree with you though, I think the same uproar would be going on during Prohibition times when people were trying to legalize alchohol again. Just because something is "legal" and/or taught in school doesn't mean it invades our individual relationshop to the spirit and right vs wrong.