Mormon donations to the Proposition 8 campaign are nearing the $10 million mark. Although the church, as an organization, has not contributed, nor have any individuals in the governing LDS leadership, these donations from church members have tremendously helped the Yes on 8 campaign in their goal to legislate the definition of marriage as between "one man and one woman." LDS Church leaders have decided to step across the sometimes murky line between politics and religion because the Church sees this as a moral issue for which they must take a stand.
So I ask all of those who have donated money to the cause: When you see the blatant lies being used in television ads that you paid for...does it pain you to know you funded immoral behaviors and the direct breaking of the 9th commandment?
When you see that you have funded blackmail and extortion attempts, does it cause your bosom to burn with joy and pride?
How do you feel to know that your money pays for ads that spread lies to the point that the California State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell expressed his strong opposition to Prop 8 in a hard-hitting TV ad, emphatically reminding voters that "our schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage." In fact, every education authority in the state has rejected the lies and distortions of the Prop 8 campaign, including the California Teachers Association and the California School Boards Association.
When you profess to stand on the moral high road and legislate your moral code as social policy, is it not then boldly Pharisaic to break that very same code to force your agenda upon others?
Do you find happiness in the immorality that you are funding?
4 comments:
TJ, I have had nothing for respect for you and your views before but come on, now your getting out of hand like everyone else. Yes, the Yes on 8 campaign has done despicable things, but so has the No on 8, BOTH have dons so officially and unofficially. BOTH sides are committing atrocities.
I emphasize the BOTH aspect because I'm not taking sides, I'm just sick of the hate on BOTH sides.
Yes it's important to be a critical thinker and question everything and deeply analyze a situation. But maybe those for Yes on 8 have done the same and just arrived at a different solution? Why demean them for that?
Why must you add to it by calling moral people who have donated to a cause they believe in as being wicked when you yourself were so offended by people proclaiming your position as being immoral and sinful? Now you are just doing something to others that they did to you. I remember the fire in some of your responses and could tell how pissed off you were by people telling you you were wrong. So why must you do the same thing back? It is one thing to present your side of an argument in a logical, respectable format for all to ponder. But it is another thing to use a phrase from a book that denounces the ACT of homosexuality (not the people perpetrating the act) to put down those that differ from your opinion.
I'M NOT TAKING EITHER SIDES, but please stop your mean rhetoric for your "high road" of equality. Demeaning your family and friends for their beliefs is not the answer.
I'm personally sick about this whole thing, about the actions of BOTH sides, about the HATE, and INTOLERANCE of BOTH sides. The vandalism, the theft, the fights, the violence, the bigotry, the misunderstanding, the terrible things perpetrated on both sides. And now you have been continuously publishing these blogs condemning you love ones only adding to the fire.
I respect your opinion and standing, when you published your "Why I'm voting yes" blog I enjoyed it and found it thought provoking. But come on already. Did you notice a diminishing return on comments on your blogs of late? People are sick of it (not you), on both sides.
Can't we discuss this issue with understanding and respect in an open forum instead of throwing away such values and mud-sling each-other at every turn?
I understand it is important to understand both sides of an issue and what each campaign is doing, so why don't you publish the stories like people vandalizing homes for having a Yes on 8 sign in their front yard?
Stop denigrating the members of the church for upholding something as sacred as marriage. I wholly agree with you on equal rights. It is as you pointed out earlier: you view this as an administrative thing, thus not a doctrine, and that's ok. The church hasn't "officially" published anything saying that you must vote Yes or donate money.
But all those people who donated in full-faith that this IS inspired by a prophet who CAN, (and has though he may not share it) see the answers to those "What If's?" that this is a cause that will change how we live our lives and raise our children, by those who have seen that even though they say education will not be forced, the ramifications of this have such great "what if's" BECAUSE of precedents set in other states for how the issue will be treated once passed.
Our law system is based on common law, that means that standing decisions usually stay and are used for determining similar cases. Yes State laws differ, but I'm sure they borrow a lot from each other. There are valid fears on both sides.
All I want is a little more restraint by those I love and interact with. The world may be ugly and do stupid, illegal things on BOTH sides, but that doesn't give us the right to rub it in each others faces.
Don't hate, appreciate!
And TJ, I write this with love for you though it may have come across as less than that, this anger is pent up frustration with the lies and misdeeds of BOTH sides, and not with you specifically, though this post did go too far and I could not stand quietly by as you claim such honorable people as my own parents and Ken as being "wicked" for donating to the Yes on 8 campaign. The Yes on 8 campaign obviously made a mistake, but what political machination does not err way too many times in it's life? That isn't the fault of donors.
It will probably end up in front of the Supreme Court eventually, with more and more states facing this issue. I think they will probably rule in favor of homosexual marriage anyway so it's all moot, as Chris pointed out in his parallel of the separate-race marriage issue of the late '60s.
I don't agree necessarily with either side and again, as Chris pointed out, you are faced with a decision of two rights, and that is tough. I am faced with that same decision as I too AGREE with you on equality. I may have chosen a different of the two rights, but who cares? We're still brothers, we're still trying to be righteous, and we'll still be together forever in the Celestial Kingdom. Love ya Brother.
I have to agree with Scott. It has been very intereting to read your thoughts and such on your opinion and decision, but I think you have gone a little too far. Both sides are doing things that they shouldn't, but we are all entitled to our opinion.
Scott, I have not even begun to get nasty. If I were to truly turn the tables and return “eye for an eye,” well, this blog is probably as close as I’ll get. Probably...
I do not believe my blog postings demean anyone for their beliefs. If the arguments of those who wish to amend the State constitution, and eventually our Federal Constitution, cannot withstand the slightest breeze of scrutiny and ethical criticism, then they can’t call my sarcastic satire demeaning. They demean themselves by continuing to support something they can’t even rationally explain.
I do not doubt that there are those who have come to an honest, analyzed, contemplated decision to support Proposition 8. Do I more readily believe that there is a little too much faith and not enough reason in their decision? Absolutely. To be fair, there are plenty who would say that I could use a little more faith with my reason in my decision.
Why must I do the same thing back that has been done to me? Because I can’t slap them and try to wake them to see what is before their eyes. So maybe a little verbal slap to awaken their civil responsibilities. And I believe that using that phrase denounces ALL sin, not just the act of fornication, but also bearing false witness, extortion, deceit, etc. Do we really want to get into a degree of sin argument?
“…stop my mean rhetoric for (my) ‘high road’ of equality.” Dude, really? If you can’t see the difference between a proposition largely supported by the Christian right trying to legislate their moral beliefs upon ALL the citizens of a state and the rest of the state who believes that social policies must accommodate all citizens equally regardless of whose holy book they read…then nothing I say from now to election day will mean anything but rhetoric to you.
Welcome to the last 3 months of my life. “Demeaning your family and friends for their beliefs is not the answer… continuously publishing these blogs condemning your loved ones” I have mentioned no names or inferred otherwise. If you happen to fall into the categories I describe, I am sorry you feel that way. My simple suggestion is to remove my link then from your blog until after the election. You can spare your family and friends from my Satanic ramblings.
The good news is that Prop 8 will be over by Thanksgiving and we won’t have to talk about it over dinner.
Why do I not post about those stealing prop 8 signs, vandalism, etc. Easy, there are plenty of blind followers doing that already…oops, that’s what you were talking about, huh? Lol.
“Did you notice a diminishing return on comments on your blogs of late? People are sick of it (not you), on both sides.” Surprisingly it is quite the contrary. Family are usually the only ones who post comments but my email inbox is getting one to two emails per day with those who thank me for being brave enough to voice my thoughts and from Mormons who sit in silence not wishing to subject themselves to the persecution that I have endured for just voicing an opposing view.
My blog-tracker software shows 20-30 unique new users per day for the last 9 days with an upward trend. But no, sorry, my feelings weren’t hurt that family ceased posting comments…but you keep coming back for more. Besides, I must add for good Sunday dinner banter…
“Stop denigrating the members of the church for upholding something as sacred as marriage.” You act like those voting no do not believe in the sanctity of marriage. I do not want the government involved in marriage definitions. The California State Supreme Court, in their ruling, evoked a clause that I want. When can call all social contracts civil unions, for one and for all. Marriages will be performed by their churches. Equality and sanctity.
“But all those people who donated in full-faith that this IS inspired by a prophet who CAN, (and has though he may not share it) see the answers to those "What If's?" that this is a cause that will change how we live our lives and raise our children, by those who have seen that even though they say education will not be forced, the ramifications of this have such great "what if's" BECAUSE of precedents set in other states for how the issue will be treated once passed.”
Are you really saying that those who follow Prop 8 claim unrevealed revelation from a prophet who hasn’t revealed it? You say that the Church isn’t requiring a Yes vote or donations, though if you want emails I can provide them of stake leaders asking for both, and then a paragraph later you say this is a revelation from God to the Prophet…even if the Prophets won’t share it as such.
And that has been my struggle with this whole thing from the beginning. If the Prophet says, “Thus sayeth the Lord”, then the onus is on me to obey. I have come to the decision on my own rational analysis accompanied with prayer, fasting, and temple ponderings.
My responsibilities lie in upholding the Constitution unless the Lord via the Prophet directly tells us to oppose it. A 1st Presidency letter is not doctrine. I can provided numerous examples of statements from Prophets that would make you shutter at the bigotry in the name of traditional values though they seemed culturally acceptable at the time.
Our Prophet has made no such statements, though millions infer revelation. Many believe Prop 8 was inspired of God and is the Gettysburg of our time. Many infer that to not vote yes on Prop 8 signifies a lack of testimony in Christ, the Prophet, and this church. Many infer that the Prophet cannot be wrong, and if he is, that they would rather be wrong with him.
In matters of doctrine, I follow my priesthood leaders. They will help instruct me and my family in what I need to be doing to return to my Father in Heaven as an eternal family unit.
In matters of politics and social policies, I follow my heart and mind as influenced by understanding of the Constitutions of the state and country in which I live.
Morally, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. As a matter of social policy, I believe you cannot treat one set of citizens different from another.
I do not doubt that there will be changes. After all, how do you deal with current events and just ignore Prop 8? What I am saying…is that I am not afraid for my children to learn that people “sin” in the world.
I send my children to school to learn about the world in which we live to learn their civil responsibilities and acquire secular knowledge in the arts and sciences.
I send my children to church to have them learn who they are, where they came from, why they are here, and where we are going.
I teach them in my home how to recognize the truth from both and reconcile the differences while maintaining the faith.
Okay…I’ll admit…the “wicked” comment was a bit much but it achieved it’s goal. And you have to admit the hilarious irony in the blatant hypocrisy. Okay, maybe you don't but I will.
For the record, I do not believe all of those who donated are wicked by association, my apologies. Satisfied? However, they do bear responsibility for what transpires with the funds they donated.
You said: “The Yes on 8 campaign obviously made a mistake, but what political machination does not err way too many times in it's life? That isn't the fault of donors.”
I couldn’t disagree more. This isn’t tithing - where you close your eyes and remind yourself that this wasn’t your money anyway, it’s the Lord’s money, as you silently disagree with certain church appropriations of funds. This is still their money and they have a right and obligation to demand that campaign leaders run an honest and moral campaign.
The No on 8 campaign sees this as a civil rights issue and does not declare a moral highroad. They embrace the late Malcolm X slogan: “Our objective is complete freedom, justice and equality by any means necessary.”
Yes on 8 campaigners do not have that luxury. If those who embrace the moral code cannot even live it, why would they declare moral superiority and try to legislate it upon those who don’t even share belief in the code?
Bottom line, I have found a new topic off-limits to discuss with family. I can’t wait to see what will happen when I officially endorse Obama…
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